Speed; Flight; Power

[Isentar]

H2 and I were having a discussion the other day about how in the newer games, when Shadow reaches top speed he flies. Now, I have an issue with this. I have no problem with Shadow gliding a few inches off of the ground, but no flying, unless he's got his Rings off or he's Super Shadow. I realize that my opinion can't battle the entire team, but this is just my personal preference. A SPEED type should never fly unless under special circumstances, and top speed is not one of these.

Whilst I'm on the subject, is Knuckles, if he's playable, going to be able to react with his entire environment, or just special objects. Like, would he be able to create dents in cliff faces, and be able to climb them, or just be able to react with rocks, for example, specifically put there for obstacles.

I can't reference this to Marvel, because you'd have to have the game to know what I mean, but if you've ever played Pokemon, you can compare this to Rock Smash. I can't believe I just compared Sonic to Pokemon....

[hookonsonic2]

Ok, when I said that Shadow will "fly", I didn't mean "FLY" like he did in Shadow the Hedgehog when his Chaos Control meter hit maximum (though, he's uber strong when he does that.) I will post a video of him "flying." It is only a foot off the ground at most, and he is still considered to be on the ground, but it appears as though he is completely off the ground. He would have to be using his boost power in order to be flying. His normal max speed animation will just be him gliding like he usually does.

Knuckles does not always react with the whole environment. If I remember correctly, he can't climb on everything, and he can only dig into dirt or other softer material. No metal.

[Isentar]

You're just toning down the Shadow 'flight' thing, but I'm glad we come to an agreement. I have no problem with his gliding going a foot off of the ground, at most.

With the Knuckles issue, we are including Shovel Claws in this, right? Is there going to be an area were you have to do certain button combinations to dig, or just dig automatically?

Is there going to be a limit on how high a Flight type can fly/ a limit on the time they can be airborne?

[hookonsonic2]

I would like to base Knuckle's digging and gliding abilities from Sonic Adventure 2. He can't fly, but he can glide with a slide downward angle so that he will eventually hit the ground. If you're in air or climbing on a wall, hitting B will make you dig, kinda. On a wall, it will make you dig. In air, you do a drill attack, which sends you spiraling downwards. Once you hit the ground, you dig.

[Isentar]

You do know that almost all of the powers in Sonic Adventure are in Sonic Advance, which I completely beat in less than a week, with the exception of one little tidbit that I beat slightly afterwards. As a result, I know what most, if not all of the attacks are that you speak of, with some exceptions. I will ask if I do not, however.

Back onto subject. Is Knucles going to DIG when he meets a wall, or just WALL CLIMB? And also, are we going to include a Wall Dash for him? Still pending on the Fly type question.

[hookonsonic2]

When he meets a wall, he will just wall climb. Once he is wall climbing, then after you hit a button, he will dig. I don't know what a wall dash is, because I haven't played Sonic Advance (at least, not yet). As for flying, after knuckles is in the air, he will have to press and hold the jump button to start gliding.

[Isentar]

Alright, that answers my dig question, although still pending on the Fly one. A Wall Dash is rather self-explanatory, it's basically a Spindash that Knucles can do, but vertically. It has the same limitations as a Spindash with the exception that it does not slow down. I'm not entirely sure, but I think Knuckles can Walldash for any distance, without slowing down, until he hits an obstacle or gets to the end of a wall.

[hookonsonic2]

Wait, when you say fly, are you talking about Shadow or Knuckles?

Hmm, the Knuckles wall dash is an interesting ability. To be honest, I'm not sure what we should do about it. It sounds like it has potential. Perhaps we should save this for another time.

[hookonsonic2]

Ok, here's a video I've uploaded, which shows EXACTLY what I meant by Shadow "flying." This was recorded from my own wii. Yes, the voices are in Japanese. I like hearing Junichi Kanemaru (Sonic). This is NOT meant to be a speed run or an S-rank playthrough. I just wanted to show you what his "flying" looks like. He starts "flying" at 0:41, 1:19, and at 1:25. Keep in mind that when Shadow is "flying", he still reacts to things as though he were only running. He is still affected by the ground and other small obstacles on the ground, although he does gain immunity to certain things, such as traps on the ground. Still, it is a great thing for Shadow to do. Plus, that teleporting move of his (Chaos Punishment) might be something worth considering, in terms of our game.





BTW, I can easily provide gameplay of almost ANY Sonic game that you want. Just ask, and you shall receive, hopefully.

[Isentar]

NO! NO! NO! We can't have Shadow go parallel! I thought you were talking about him doing something similar to Tails, where he just tucks his feet behind his body. Tails uses his tails to propel himself, whilst running at max speed, but Shadow would just use his shoes.

Oh, and once you do try Sonic Advance, I believe it goes for 2 and 3, but perhaps just 3 or all of them, but I can't remember. 3 for sure, though. To do it, you need to have Knuckles partnered with Amy, and once you're on a wall, press -> or <-, into the wall you're facing, and press A a few times to rev it up, just like a Spindash. If I were you, I'd try it on Chaos Angel (Zone 7), Level 2, on one of the really tall walls, for best results. You can test his, can't remeber the name, the one where he spirals, with the same partner. Once you are in the air, Down+B.
I have no doubt that computer controls will be different. These are the standard GameBoy controls. If I remember I'll show you tomorrow.

STILL PENDING ON THE FLY TYPE QUESTION! Is there a limit, in time or height, to a Fly type's abilities?!

PS) If you remember my post on partners, this is what I based it upon. You'd have to play it to see.

PPS) Is there any way I can get Sonic games on this computer? If I had an external hard drive that is.

[Isentar]

Oh, I can give you an almost complete knowledge of how to do anything in Sonic Advance 3, with the exception of Chao locations, although I do know some. Just ask me, and I can tell you where to unlock characters, how to beat Special Zones, the whole Enchilada, pardon my Spanish. Before you ask, no, you cannot get Shadow, or transform into Super Sonic except for 1 stage.

[hookonsonic2]

Hmm, you may just be reading my incorrectly here. You see, Shadow "flying" is just an animation that we are using when he is using his BOOST, which is separate from running. Holding down the up arrow on a flat surface for an infinite amount of time will never make Shadow "fly." He has to hit his boost. Paralell is the only way to go. If Shadow flys similar to Tails, then he looks awkward (at least, that's how I see it). In the game Shadow the Hedgehog, he flew in a manner very similar to the way he flew in that video, except he would go REALLY fast and just pass through the level in the quickest way possible.

Anyways, I would like to base most of our physics for the game off of Sonic Colors, which I can provide video of, seeing as I own the game and a wii console. I will probably remove the double jump ability, because it's just cheap.

About your flying question, which you finally clarified in your last post, here is my idea:

Just base ALL of the flying physics from Sonic Adventure 2. I can, again, provide videos. I'll still try to explain. A flying type has unlimited flight time. Of course, they are only gliding, so they are constantly losing a little altitude. They stop flying once they either let go of the button, or when they hit the ground or some other obstacle. They can fly at any height, assuming that they are at least airborne.

[Isentar]

If you read my first post, you'll see that the Fly question was specified there. I personally don't think we should have Shadow parallel, or look like Tails. Just imagine Shadow gliding like usual, but with a black image trail following him, with a little red mixed in. Now picture this, but with the altitude slightly adjustable based on the ground. I don't mind him leaning forward or back, but NOT parallel.

Also, I think that for Fly types, there should be a gauge that measures time, and the higher the altitude, the faster it runs, but the faster your speed, the slower it runs, but there is no air resistance added, yet. We'll save this for the entirely fan-fiction SX4! Once we're done with SX3.

I personally think we should base our physics off of the real world, with some modifications, or 'bending' of the rules. This will provide a generally realistic but exciting gameplay experience. For example, I noticed in your SBK video that Shadow deaccelerated by at least 80% when airborne, and gained it back once he hit the ground. Of course, I'm not saying that when you're airborne it's the same exact speed, but it should have a maximum of a 20% deacceleration, if any at all, or you should have to Chaos Control to slow time. Sonic physics just provide too much free space to be able to put in a game, because they change in every game there is.

[hookonsonic2]

Don't forget that Sonic and the Black Knight is NOTHING compared to Sonic Colors. Sonic Colors is, by far, the best of the "new" Sonic games. The physics are basically perfect, the graphics are, again, amazing, and the voice acting is actually PROFESSIONAL for once. I can easily get you some playthroughs of Sonic Colors, since I have the actual game and console.

EDIT: I still think we should use most of the flying physics from Sonic Adventure 2. Those physics were not too bad, although they accelerated just a little bit too much when they started gliding. We are NOT going to make Tails accelerate as fast as he did in Sonic Adventure 1. He could go twice as fast as Sonic, and in only 2 seconds! Energy gauges won't really work. Yes, there are limitation as to how long they can fly, but altitude and speed aren't factors. They just...fly.

[Isentar]

If all they could do was glide, they'd be called Glide types, but they're Fly types. As of such, they need to, oh the horror, actually FLY! How about this: I'm going to take this from Spyro, but:

After the double jump option, press jump again and you'll go into flight mode. Once in this, doing nothing will make you lower slowly back to the ground. Moving will keep you airborne, but not necessarily at the same altitude, and pressing jump again will give you a slight alititude gain. There will be a height limit added to this.

It'd help if you could get me some clips of Sonic Colors, or maybe the game, to see the physics of it all. Otherwise, I won't be able to judge properly.